belly number pictures?

Identifaction of VIN, case numbers and cylinder heads
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Windowman
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belly number pictures?

#1

Post by Windowman »

Anyone have a picture of belly numbers on a 50 panhead with the motor in the frame?
I wanted to see one while it was in the frame so I can use a mirror to check one out
since it is setting on a home made stand and hard to get my head under it. :?:



Windowman
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Re: belly number pictures?

#2

Post by Windowman »

Maybe I figured this out and was trying to look to low with too little of time.

Been having some back luck the last few days.

Was supposed to go over and meet the lady to get some pictures and she had
to leave by a certain time and of coarse got held up and work then traffic slowed
me down (SF bay area sucks for that) so by the time I drive up she is walking out
the door but she lets me go in to get a few pictures, wouldn't you know it the
batteries are dead. So then I figured to look under it at the belly numbers and
guess I was looking in the wrong area since I did not see and because of the stand
it is on, but I was looking at the dead center bottom.

So in this picture, I guess the green area is the correct and not the red?
195011panmotor-1.jpg
I do understand this part of the motor, just the wrong angle I was looking.
1950FL113belly.jpg
Said I was a nub to harley's.
Now I got to go back and check.
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john HD
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Re: belly number pictures?

#3

Post by john HD »

green is good!

let us know what you find!

john

radarv
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Re: belly number pictures?

#4

Post by radarv »

this might sound like a dumb question but.... what do the belly numbers tell you? are they important? are they some factory code???? thanks, radar

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Re: belly number pictures?

#5

Post by RUBONE »

Radar, The belly numbers are factory production numbers that tell the year the cases were made and if they are a matched set. Are they important? YES. If they do not match each other the engine at some point was rebuilt from different parts. If not set up correctly it can create issues. If the engine number is not the right year for the cases it can create BIG trouble with Law Enforcement. There has been much discussion on belly numbers on this and other forums. Do a search for those posts. And never buy a bike without educating yourself up-front!
Robbie

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Re: belly number pictures?

#6

Post by mbskeam »

If the engine number is not the right year for the cases it can create BIG trouble with Law Enforcement.
yes, but only with the left case
if its a 50 then it best say 150-xxxx, with the 50 being the year of the case
the case numbers do not have to match , these are only production numbers, ie; machining, line boring. this lets you know that the case halfs are a matted set.
if you are restoring it then great, but if you only need a complete engine then any right half case will do,
mine is a 49 right on a 56....

radarv
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Re: belly number pictures?

#7

Post by radarv »

thanks for the info. yes I'm trying to educate myself. thats why I'm here. I just went & checked mine. the guy I got mine from said it was a "49". both the cases have the number 249-xxxxx. so if I understand correctly, this is a "49". the frame is a "55" as far as what I've read here on this site. the reason I wondered is sometime in its life the state of wisconsin restamped the cases with a state number. yes it has a clear title here. so no problems with law enforcement. the thing is titled as a "1968 homebuilt ". why? who knows. any ideas? thanks, radar

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Re: belly number pictures?

#8

Post by mbskeam »

is the vin number still on the case? the number at the top by the cyl.....

radarv
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Re: belly number pictures?

#9

Post by radarv »

the original vin number was ground off .the state stamped over in the same spot it used to be. also they stamped the same number on the other case half {cam side} near the rear cylinder tappett block. the numbers match the title I have.

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Re: belly number pictures?

#10

Post by VPH-D »

Special Construction means someone built a motorcycle out of parts that did not include a title. The completed bike was inspected by the state, then given a state or "SC" title. The machine is a 1968 SC, not a 49 H-D.
VPH-D

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Re: belly number pictures?

#11

Post by Panacea »

Which makes it worth a lot less..my 51 is a 74

radarv
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Re: belly number pictures?

#12

Post by radarv »

well even if its built from parts & it aint titled as a 49 thats ok with me. it wont be in a museum. I plan on building a rider. hardtail, kick only,tank shift,foot cluch bike. how many people nowdays really know the difference outside of the purists? I just enjoy working on it. its still worth what I payed for it which was way less than a correctly titled 49. I'm still very pleased with it. regards ,radar

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Re: belly number pictures?

#13

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Radar, H-D Panhead belly numbers usually consist of three sections:

1. The first numeric character represents engine size where 1 usually indicates 74ci and 2 usually indicates 61ci.
2. As previously noted, the next two numeric characters indicate the year of line-boring/machining and if the two belly numbers match each other in full then the cases were line-bored as a matching pair. But crankcases were not necessarily cast in the line-bore year and on the inside of some Panhead case halves there is a casting date code which indicates the month and year of casting. Also, sometimes the model year will be later than the line-bore year, for example, an early-1950 model may have cases with 1949 belly numbers.
3. The last four or five numeric characters indicate the sequential position of the crankcases in the machining production run.

I notice you identified your model as an FL. But both your belly numbers begin with 2 and as I mentioned above, 2 usually indicates an engine size of 61ci. And a 61ci Panhead engine is an E-series. However, I have run across this sort of thing before and although there can be legitimate reasons for H-D's apparent discrepancies I'm curious as to how widespread this was. You said Wisconsin restamped the cases and the bike was now titled as a 1968 homebuilt but did the engine start out as an FL? Eric

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Re: belly number pictures?

#14

Post by radarv »

eric,sorry for the ultra late reply. I just ran out and re looked at the belly numbers. they both start out with #2 there is a #7 stamped on both case halves on the top rear motor mount flange near the bolt holes. I read somewhere on this forum that the 7 denotes its a 74cui. also some of the original vin is visible. It says 49Fl.... the rest is unreadable. I dont really know now for shure.but its got me thinking. what do you guys think? how else would a guy know? any ideas?
Speeding Big Twin wrote:Radar, H-D Panhead belly numbers usually consist of three sections:

1. The first numeric character represents engine size where 1 usually indicates 74ci and 2 usually indicates 61ci.
2. As previously noted, the next two numeric characters indicate the year of line-boring/machining and if the two belly numbers match each other in full then the cases were line-bored as a matching pair. But crankcases were not necessarily cast in the line-bore year and on the inside of some Panhead case halves there is a casting date code which indicates the month and year of casting. Also, sometimes the model year will be later than the line-bore year—for example, an early-1950 model may have cases with 1949 belly numbers.
3. The last four or five numeric characters indicate the sequential position of the crankcases in the machining production run.

I notice you identified your model as an FL. But both your belly numbers begin with 2 and as I mentioned above, 2 usually indicates an engine size of 61ci. And a 61ci Panhead engine is an E-series. However, I have run across this sort of thing before and although there can be legitimate reasons for H-D’s apparent discrepancies I’m curious as to how widespread this was. You said Wisconsin restamped the cases and the bike was now titled as a 1968 homebuilt but did the engine start out as an FL? Eric
:?:

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Re: belly number pictures?

#15

Post by pan620 »

Even if have a title if the VIN has been altered when the right or wrong law man stops you it will be trouble

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